Etiquette suggestions for opinions?

Laura Mom · Senior Member

Etiquette suggestions for opinions?

MrE1111 · Guru

Interesting question. I hope I can phrase my answer without sounding nasty, sarcastic, or just plain mean. Please forgive me if it comes off as that.

I think it's hard for many people to create unbiased opinions knowing that family members post here. The family members just have to realize that everyone has their own feelings about the show and, if they don't like the show itself, the cast, or whatever, that they're entitled to feel that way. Not only the family members, but everyone should realize that. I've read numerous threads here attacking posters on BroadwayWorld because they thought the show wasn't any good and the people here did. There's no need to be nasty because someone disagrees with you.

I know many actors who happily read message boards, BroadwayWorld, AllThatChat, etcetera, and have read many things, good and bad, about themselves, their shows...they have learned not to take what everyone says personally (most of the "good" reviews on those boards don't attack the performer as a person, they just didn't like them in the show).

People shouldn't feel the need to justify their negative thoughts. It's a mostly anonymous message board for a reason...it's not like you, Laura's Mom, are gonna track down where they live and confront them. But the question is "do you feel personally attacked by negative comments?" It is your child, after-all, and you're completely allowed to feel that way. But there's also the idea of, as you said, "well, not everyone's gonna love it." As long as you realize that it's not a personal attack, and just a critique of the performance, then it's all good, isn't it?

Does this even make sense?

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 14:38, 2007-07-27

Kait · Senior Member

Jane, you have been so generous and lovely to share your experiences as Laura's mom. I think the main problem with your post in another thread is that you are identified as Laura's mom. If you say something about a cast member that is negative, even slightly, the family and cast member knows it is you, and could then be uncomfortable when they see you.

I make my living as a professional writer. I get reviews and I deal with them. If the mother (or dad, or aunt) of a friend or colleague criticized my work in a public forum, it'd be that much harder.

MrE1111 · Guru

You can tell you're a writer, Kait - you managed to say what I wanted to and couldn't figure out how! smile

Just as an aside, I think that the posters here should refrain from joining BroadwayWorld just to post their thoughts on the show. It's a very tense place and some of the veteran members can tell when someone joins to "shill" a show.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 14:42, 2007-07-27

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 14:43, 2007-07-27

Kait · Senior Member

Thanks, Mr.E.

So if a Max/Laura fan goes on Broadwayworld.com to give a positive review, they are considered a shill? I was assuming that a shill was a person associated with the show in some way, either by relation to an actor or professionally. Shows my theater ignorance, I suppose.

I haven't seen the show yet, but I confess to the impulse to defend any positive statements. You're right, BWW.com seems a tense place. Thanks for the tip.

Hello799 · Senior Member

Thank you for asking for our suggestions.

First, I believe that you started this thread becaue of another. Regardless if an opinion is positive or negative, it is in the eye of the beholder. Anotherwords, I think that its great to ask for our opinion, but it really depends on what the other cast members and their families think.

A person can take a negative feedback in a couple of ways, but a positive feedback is always taken one way. The negative opinion will be taken either good or bad. Some people will be offended by it and other people will recognize it and strive to do that much better.
Do you see the glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty. If you see it 1/2 full, you will have the tendicy to fill it up. Which makes you a giving person. If you see it 1/2 empty, you will want it completely empty. Which makes you selfish.

I truely believe everyone (including families of cast members) have a right to their own opinion, however, some people have to play by certain rules because they are held to a higher standard. If the cast and their families can take negative feedback and understand it, they will only do what they need to do to make themselves better.

All-in-all Jane, from reading all of your posts and from the personal conversations that we have had. I can tell that you are a person that sees the glass 1/2 full. I also believe that the cast will understand why you said what you said.
Furthermore, I believe that Jan will confront you and ask you why you thought what you did. But only to better herself. Thats what professionals do.

IF YOU STRIVE FOR PERFECTION, YOU SHALL ACHIEVE GREATNESS!!!!!!

-- Edited by Hello799 at 13:57, 2007-07-28

singingdoc · Veteran Member

Jane,
     First I must tell you that I have thoroughly enjoyed your willingness to open up and share your feelings and opinions about your family's whirlwind experiences over the past 9 months. For natively curious people, like myself, who are not intimately involved with theatre, your posts, along with those of Rachel and DogsandBirds, have allowed us to vicariously participate in the experience and learn something about the theatre.
     The post by Hello799 is eloquently stated. I, as a scientist, am always seeking feedback (good or bad) on my research and design future experiments with that feedback in mind. I'll tell you, scientists can be just as opinionated and sometimes as petty and abrasive as some theatre people seem to be (ie-broadwayworld.com forum). Consequently, I've had to develop a pretty thick skin.   However, not all scientists have thick skins and some take criticism poorly. That's truly unfortunate, since criticism ( known as critical thinking in the scientific community) is one the principal methods by which the boundaries of science are advanced.
     I think the analogy between the scientific and theatre communities is appropriate here. I suspect that just like scientists, actors have varying degrees of thick skin. You (and I suspect Laura) apparently have a willingness to accept criticism (even from someone "in the family") and learn from it. As an aside, I find the idea that some "hardened New Yorker Actors" may have thinner skins than a mid-western mother a little amusing and a touch ironic. But, I guess that's the case (by the way, I have no way of knowing how the actress who plays Jan takes criticism and am not implying that she is thin skinned; my comments are based on general inferences gleaned from other posts).
     I personally did not find your comments about "Jan" particularly offensive and I'm sure (after following your posts on the forum and reading your latest post) they weren't intended to be. Nevertheless, I think we should all keep in mind that the families of the Grease actors and maybe even the actors themselves read this forum and some are more sensitive than others. I guess we all have learned a lesson

cpathens · Veteran Member

.....Just as an aside, I think that the posters here should refrain from joining BroadwayWorld just to post their thoughts on the show. It's a very tense place and some of the veteran members can tell when someone joins to "shill" a show.

Thanks, MrE, I think this needed to be said. All boards have their own personality and BWWorld is not a fan board. Those who join the board just to make positive posts about a show will not be treated with much respect. Yes, there are people there trashing the show, but they were going to do that no matter what, and it's really kind of in a playful way, IMO. Just let them have their fun - they'll tire of it soon enough.

THEcritic · Newbie

I honestly doubt that jan would care about "Laura's Moms" opinion. I just think it's not very smart for her to criticize her daughters cast members, how awkward for laura. that could easily cause tension that doesn't need to be there, and I'm sure both jan and laura support eachothers abilites in the show.

MrE1111 · Guru

Kait - A Laura/Max fan can post whatever they want on BroadwayWorld. But if they join up suddenly and automatically post an "OMG I LOVED IT!" review, it's suspected that they joined just to post that one thing.

Say I were a well-known poster on BroadwayWorld (which I may or may not be) and I saw Grease, liked it, and posted so. Because I'm well known, posted many times in the past, my opinion wouldn't be considered "shilly."

Know what I mean?

Paikea · Veteran Member

It's a good forewarning. There's a credibility factor. I happen to love both boards, but posting something here and posting the same thing there or at any other Broadway forum probably won't elicit the same reaction. That's not to say that there are no positive reviews there, because there have been.

MrE1111 wrote:
Say I were a well-known poster on BroadwayWorld (which I may or may not be) and I saw Grease, liked it, and posted so. Because I'm well known, posted many times in the past, my opinion wouldn't be considered "shilly."

Know what I mean?

Haha, I love that. *makes it my lifelong ambition to uncover the true identity of MrE1111*

Kait · Senior Member

Yes, I understand. And as a person who'd likely have never seen a Broadway show if Max and Laura hadn't caught my attention via the NBC show, I'd probably best avoid the site. I don't need to know the ins and outs of the Broadway theater world. I will, however, see more than the Grease show when I go to NYC. I suppose I'd rather be naive and happy.

MrE1111 · Guru

Paikea - (said with a really thick Irish brogue like a Pirate) NEVEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

hehe.

DogsandBirds · Guru

How much are you willing to pay for that information????

LOL!!

reniefran · Senior Member

Jane,
I think opinions are just that opinions. Every one has them it's the way that they express them that makes all the difference in the world. I really don't think that you meant to be unkind but I can see how someone might think it wasn't prudent on your part to express a negative opinion especially if you used the words "I don't like". But I agree with you another poster about the 1/2 full, 1/2 empty analogy. If this young lady that played Jan has been in other plays then I suspect she has not always had positive comments. Two people could see a play and come away with three opinions. If I were a professional then I might take the approach of asking you what you didn't like and what you think I need to change. After all besides being Laura's mother you are a part of the theater going public and as such I would want to know what I need to change because after all the people sitting in the seats bought tickets and they might be the best ones to ask about what needs tweaked because they are viewing things from the "outside" whereas the actors are viewing things from the "inside."
I think of the "You can't see the forest for the trees" analogy. I am sure that standing on the stage things look totally different than they do in the seats. There is also a saying that in order to be successful you need to know your audience. I think that is what is happening during these previews the actors are "getting to know" their audience. I think the best way to express an opinion is to do so as objectively as possible and to critize the performance and not the person. Does that make sense?

Edwardian · Veteran Member

Jane,

I agree with reniefran that the key is to criticize the performance rather than the performer. One can always say whatever one needs to say while being respectful of others and considerate of others' feelings. It only takes a willingness to care and to take the time and the thought to do so. We can all reread out posts to anticipate how our words might be perceived before hitting that "Post Reply" button.

From the other side, when reading posts by others, I try to remembers that everyone brings different personalities and experiences to the table and ultimately will put out here some aspect of whatever is inside them that day. It's also a truism that beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, especially when it comes to art.

That's my two cents. I hope it adds to this valuable discussion. And I appreciate your starting this topic.

Ed

queen1zelda · Newbie

Jane.. I realize the hurt you must feel when confronted by another poster here about your opinions on the show concerning jan...Like alot of us on here ,we do not know the proper way of responding to other people asking us our opinions , especially when all of this is fairly new to us.and i'm sure to you. when reading your post .I did not feel that you were personally attacking the actor portraying jan.. but the differences in the way your hometown handled the "Jan role.. verses the New York version..i'M sure it's a lesson well learned though.. please do not be discouraged about posting your thoughts on the show..

Broadway26 · Member

Kait wrote:

Jane, you have been so generous and lovely to share your experiences as Laura's mom.
___________________________________________________

With all due respect to Jane, it's not as though she is posting here out of the goodness of her heart.

The producers of the show are paying her to post here as part of their marketing campaign.

You know, an attempt to give all of the TV-watchers a warm, fuzzy feeling about a Mother-Daughter relationship on the brink of a turning point experience, and as a result, a way to encourage people to drop money on tickets to the show.

-- Edited by Broadway26 at 05:32, 2007-07-28

THEcritic · Newbie

I saw the show a few nights ago and thought jan was great, one of my favorite parts of the show. "Mooning" would be a better closer than "You're the one that i want", that number needs some work both on the singing and dancing of max and laura.

musikguy24601 · Member

I was the one who made the posting to Laura's mom on the other topic, and I actually wanted to say that I think the posts on this board have been more than fair and quite encouraging! My earlier posting was on an entirely different matter; beyond that specific issue I actually think noone on this board has said anything remotely offensive, and anyone who has made it to Broadway has already received both very positive and very negative reviews; if they had allowed criticism to get under their skin, they wouldn't have gotten to this point. (While many member of this cast are making their debuts, they have been working for years in the business.) And how great to have family members of people making their Broadway debut share their experiences; how often does the general public get to hear what this is all really about? To be honest, these forums are a haven for those who have strong opinions to anonymously post their two cents, and accordingly you often find the most biased postings, both positive and negative. As a performer myself, I have received positive comments as well as scathing reviews that I can still quote ten years later, and nothing on this board has begun to reach what usually circulates on these boards in the early previews. (To be honest, almost every performer I know does not read reviews or forum boards, because who really wants to put themselves through that, and you really aren't at liberty to do anything differently than what you are directed to do, so why read about whether people like the choices or not?) People often have their mind made up before going to the show, and with Grease that is even more often the case because so many people have such strong opinions about the show. You either go in thinking it is a very fun show or a piece of garbage, and considering the show is what it is, that is usually the opinion you leave with. I also think people are gunning for this show because of the TV show, but I don't think the TV show hindered the casting of this show in the least. Laura is very similar to the original Sandy, sings and acts beautifully, and Max makes Danny a real kid, at times goofy, at times awkward, but real. The fact of the matter is the number of people who tuned in to the TV show was just over a million viewers fewer than the entire audience of the Tony Awards, and it is interesting to walk the NY streets at 10:30 and see groupings of 10-50 people waiting for the casts of Grey Gardens and 110 in the Shade (both of which I LOVE!) and literally hundreds waiting for Max and Laura. With so many shows closing without making back a cent of their original investment, and Grease being sold out for months, I think the TV show worked just fine! Also, I think anything that brings new people to Broadway is great; it creates more jobs and opportunities for us all.

I do like to read the boards because if your read past the extremes, you often do find some common truths which come through, and that to me is always interesting because like everyone else I come in with my own biases, and I like to see how other people view the same things I do. I had never seen this board until recently, and it is really cool to find a forum of people just loving a show and posting their thoughts, unlike some of the other negative boards which exist. Continue posting, continue discussing, and see the show!

themusicman · Veteran Member

Broadway26 wrote:

Kait wrote:

Jane, you have been so generous and lovely to share your experiences as Laura's mom.
___________________________________________________

With all due respect to Jane, it's not as though she is posting here out of the goodness of her heart.

The producers of the show are paying her to post here as part of their marketing campaign.

You know, an attempt to give all of the TV-watchers a warm, fuzzy feeling about a Mother-Daughter relationship on the brink of a turning point experience, and as a result, a way to encourage people to drop money on tickets to the show.

-- Edited by Broadway26 at 05:32, 2007-07-28

I'm not certain if this is an attempt at humor or a factual statement.

theatremania · Member

To: musikguy24601

Thanks so much for this post. I really enjoyed reading it, as well as others on this forum. Keep writing - it is very much appreciated!

Hello799 · Senior Member

Broadway26 wrote:

Kait wrote:

Jane, you have been so generous and lovely to share your experiences as Laura's mom.
___________________________________________________

With all due respect to Jane, it's not as though she is posting here out of the goodness of her heart.

The producers of the show are paying her to post here as part of their marketing campaign.

You know, an attempt to give all of the TV-watchers a warm, fuzzy feeling about a Mother-Daughter relationship on the brink of a turning point experience, and as a result, a way to encourage people to drop money on tickets to the show.

-- Edited by Broadway26 at 05:32, 2007-07-28

I would also like to know if this is a joke or if this is the case. Jane??

cpathens · Veteran Member

Broadway26 wrote:
The producers of the show are paying her to post here as part of their marketing campaign. ......
If so, then it was a great idea. I'm loving it!

musikguy24601, thanks for your latest post about the message boards. There are some wise words there.

lilac_rose · Member

Broadway26 wrote:

Kait wrote:

Jane, you have been so generous and lovely to share your experiences as Laura's mom.
___________________________________________________

With all due respect to Jane, it's not as though she is posting here out of the goodness of her heart.

The producers of the show are paying her to post here as part of their marketing campaign.

You know, an attempt to give all of the TV-watchers a warm, fuzzy feeling about a Mother-Daughter relationship on the brink of a turning point experience, and as a result, a way to encourage people to drop money on tickets to the show.

-- Edited by Broadway26 at 05:32, 2007-07-28

Well, you just gave away your identity pretty quickly.

Hi, WBAF.

From one "well-known BWW poster" to another, the above is untrue, unequivocally. Who is supplying your information, Reidel?

Give me a break. You know better.

-- Edited by lilac_rose at 16:16, 2007-07-28

DogsandBirds · Guru

I thought WBAF was on here. I can't imagine why, since he hates the show so much! On the other hand, being nasty comes naturally to WBAF.

Edwardian · Veteran Member

Anyone who has read Jane and Rachel's posts here can get enough of a sense of who they are as people to know that they would not accept money to shill the show. This guy (Broadway26) seems to be here merely to stir up odoriferous substances.

Ray · Senior Member

I'm sure the producers are getting rich from the dozen or so people who read Jane's and Rachel's posts.
The naysayers are grasping at straws in utter desperation.

reniefran · Senior Member

I agree. Why must people persist in finding a reason to be nasty? Should we just ignore it when someone seems to be stirring up trouble? I mean I posted a new topic just basically hoping to get people to be nice. Up until the show opened we had nice people posting here. What gives? doh

themusicman · Veteran Member

Jane,

You did nothing wrong. Don't worry.

Hello799 · Senior Member

I don't mind negative opinions. As I stated before, everyone has a right to their own opinion.

I would only ask that if you were to post your opinion, you would speak the truth. Whether your opinion is positive or negative, you have the right to post it. I just ask that you post the truth. I have no idea why Broadway26 would make such allegations as he did.

Whether you get paid or not Jane, themusicman is right. You did nothing wrong!!!!!!

Laura Mom · Senior Member

Thank you for the many opinions. It is a good learning experience. I think the thing I have most learned is that it is very hard to write about something that you feel so enthusiastically about and not sometimes just "carry on" without selecting your thoughts more carefully. It's also impossible to control or even anticipate sometimes the reactions of others to almost anything you could potentially say. I've had a wonderful private conversation with those I accidentally offended and I feel we've righted ourselves again and I appreciate their grace! I laughed out loud at the comment above that stated Rachel and I are being paid for writing here! Thanks for the comic relief! I am writing here for several reasons, none of which is getting paid to do so! My reasons are much more simple: I am an avid theatre lover; I am passionate about my daughter and I recognize how many people have contributed to her success; and I would like in some small way to thank and acknowledge people who have helped fulfilled Laura's dream; and, quite truthfully, it's been personally fun to me! I think I may become more of a listener and less of a talker now however as it just really is too easy to say things that get taken in the wrong direction. And just because I'm Laura's Mom things I say sometimes carry way more weight than they ever legitmately deserve. But carry on...I'll keep listening as long as there's more good than negative going on and maybe pipe in now and again.

Hello799 · Senior Member

Thank you Jane for you kind words again. I think that its great that you were willing to communicate with other people to rectify a wrong.

I am truely sorry however to hear that you may choose to sit on the sidelines. I do believe that its for the best.

Please, pipe in whenever you can. at least try to do it 3 times a day...hahaha!!!

THANK YOU and TAKE CARE!!!!!!!!

Mrs N · Senior Member

Count me among those who will miss Jane's contributions even though I well understand her rationale for choosing to be a less vocal presence here.

singingdoc · Veteran Member

Jane,
From my personal perspective, I'm extremely disappointed in but definitely understanding of your decision to not post as much. You're posts have been both educational and evenhanded (the latter characteristic must be VERY difficult to achieve when you have your daughter so intimately involved in the show). They have also provided us outsiders with a unique glimpse of the emotional rollercoaster both you and your family have been on for the last 9 months. Thank you for being so open and honest.
As I stated above, I understand why you have decided not to post as much but I wish that you would reconsider. I think I speak for many on this forum when I say that your insights into the whole process are enthusiastically welcomed and if on the rare occasion you make a "politically incorrect" faux pas, so what. That's what the editing or delete option is for. smile

gramps3 · Senior Member

Me too. I was afraid it would come to this and I have no disagreement with Jane's stance. It is totally understandable and she is being much more graceful about it than I think I would be.

At the same time I am not appreciative of forum members (this forum and others) who get an ego trip out of being contrarians. My wish, to put it bluntly, is that they would grow up or look more carefully at the words they put on paper.

Stan/gramps

AZN Danny · Veteran Member

Jane, maybe they can make a message board for Laura's website.