A few brief comments on today's matinee (now with photos)

MrE1111 · Guru

A few brief comments on today's matinee (now with photos)

gramps3 · Senior Member

RE: A few brief comments on today's matinee

MrE1111 · Guru

Oh, they're definitely giving it their all and enjoying every minute, no question in my mind. Their fans definitely won't be disappointed.

I've always had problems with the stage version of Grease, starting with the fact that Sandy, the "main character" has less stage time and development than Rizzo.

I've just fleshed out my thoughts above in order to truly analyze their performances from a critical standpoint.

As you so wonderfully quoted from Emerson, even if it's not perfect, it was good to watch.

reniefran · Senior Member

Id love to see your photos!

MrE1111 · Guru

AZN Danny · Veteran Member

RE: A few brief comments on today's matinee (now with photos)

MrE1111 · Guru

All critics are wolves (and I consider myself a critic, since some of my reviews have been published). I don't set out to be mean and I try very heard to not completely trash anything I see. Those people on stage are doing something that I would never dream of.

It's terribly hard to trash Max and Laura's performances, given their lack of NY theatrical experience. That's why I stated what I thought their performances lacked, rather than just saying "they sucked" or "they were fab!"

NYC9758 · Veteran Member

I wouldn't go so far as to call the choreography "high school" level haha, but my problem was more with the staging...but if you want to talk about high school level choreography, I would have to point to Spring Awakening. How Bill T. Jones got a Tony for telling kids to jump around stage is beyond me. Riding on coat tails, that one...

MrE1111 · Guru

I can actually see him doing a very good job with Grease. But that's just me!

Ray · Senior Member

MrE....I believe that your review is objective and knowledgeable, and I appreciate your views.

I haven't seen the show yet, and have wondered about the Zuko accent. I get from you that it isn't an ethnic or regional accent, but rather a tough way of speaking. It's probably overkill and a gimmick that Max doesn't need. He's really a remarkable young actor, as one look at Echoboom will attest.

The other point is Act 2 being bogged down with story and ballads. As an old hand with Grease, what would you do to give it the exuberance and excitement that one expects in this show? Or is it always a problem in any production, because of the writing?

ddktt · Veteran Member

Mr. E - Your review was right on. I logged on tonight just because I wanted to hear what you thought. Please do go into more detail. What did you think of Teen Angel? Would Greasers live in a mid-century modern house? Do tell. I liked your photos.

MrE1111 · Guru

Ray - It's kind of a very odd wannabe-Tony Soprano-Italiany-tough guy accent that not only doesn't sound stereotypically Italian but it doesn't sound like much of anything exept put-on.

Act I breezes by, because it follows the pattern of talk-peppy song-blackout-repeat. Act II is slow because not only is it very dialogue heavy, but it has about 4 or 5 slow songs in a row (Hopelessly Devoted, Beauty School Dropout, Sandy, RocknRoll Party Queen (bouncy), Worse Things I Could Do, and Sandra Dee reprise). Act I is very dance heavy, the only parts of Act II where there's a lot of dance are the opening and closing scenes. It's a big fault of the writing, but Marshall's bland staging doesn't help.

I feel that Hopelessly Devoted to You is the biggest problem, as, well, it's just there. Laura sells it, of course, and it sounds very pretty, but there's nothing to it. It would work much better in Act I, during the sleepover scene (after Freddy My Love and after Rizzo climbs out the window). Not only would it give Sandy some much-needed development and stage time in the first act (she's really on stage in act I for about 20 minutes), but it would give it a ballad.

The song tempos (speed, for anyone who's unfamiliar with musical terminology) are slower than I'm used to, as well, so that could be another part of my problem.

ddktt - I thought the Teen Angel scene was appropriately cheesy. Gave the audience a great laugh.

Kait · Senior Member

Yes, thanks, Mr. E. Yours was the most positive negative review I believe I've EVER seen. As Gramps 3 says, Max and Laura fans will enjoy the show because of our emotional investment. I'm thinking the true fans will go into it looking for fun, and will thus be fully entertained.

I wonder if Kathleen will tweak that problematic second act.

-- Edited by Kait at 13:14, 2007-08-02

Maria15 · Veteran Member

SO lucky!!!!!! I just want to ask you If you have some photos of (or with) Allison Fischer, the girl who plays Patty Simcox, I'm one of the adims of her Spanish fan club, so If you have some, we'd like to put them in our website

Thanks

XOXO MARIA

reniefran · Senior Member

You do have some good suggestions concerning the second act. Have you thought about talking to e-mailing whatever Kathleen Marshall. She's a pretty cool lady maybe she would at least listen. It seems like maybe infusing more of a story line and character development would help all concerned. It's worth a shot. I too appreciate your sensitive treatment of things you saw that you thought needed fixed. As I said Max and Laura take direction well, I'd be willing to bet the accent might have been Kathleen's idea. I agree with you that Max is an excellent actor and who knows maybe he could sell himself more effectively as Danny sans accent. Well as I also said before I have adopted a wait and see attitude. They have some time to work out the kinks before opening night. But as was also said by you or someone else here, those of us who already know and love Max and Laura will love it and have a great time. Thanks again for doing such an excellent job of sharing your views without trashing anyone.

MrE1111 · Guru

I know of many cases where actors, directors, producers have taken into consideration suggestions which are posted on message boards.

However, I feel that it isn't my place to give Marshall suggestions on how to stage her show. I did have the pleasure to wish her well yesterday, as she was there busily taking notes.

The problem is that to, as you said, infuse more of a story line and develop characters would require a complete rewrite of the show itself. The show is very much "on the page," that is, there are no underlying themes and especially no development. It always surprises people when they realize that the iconic role of Sandy isn't a very good one. The stage version is very much of an ensemble show.

reniefran · Senior Member

So it really is a good first show for Max and Laura. I guess I just misunderstood the importance of Sandy and Danny to the story line. Of course in the movie their roles are central to the story such as it is. Well I learned something new today and for that I thank you. As to Ms Marshall. Maybe she will drop by the boards and see your suggestions.

Ray · Senior Member

MrE.....If Max's accent is obviously "put on", and not an integral part of the character's personality, I fear that the critics will crucify him.
I believe that Max has the skill to tone it down to just a hint of "tough guy", which is what a real-life Danny would do. Danny is not an actor with dialectic skills. He's just a kid struggling through teen madness.
I'm focusing on this because I think it's fixable, whereas Act 2 may not be. I read somewhere that they relocated "Hopelessly Devoted" to give Sandy some stage time in Act 2.
Any thoughts?

-- Edited by Ray at 17:53, 2007-08-02

MrE1111 · Guru

reniefran - Yes, this is the PERFECT show for two young, otherwise inexperienced actors to hone and develop professional stage skills. If they were in a production of, oh, Gypsy or Guys and Dolls, they'd be screwed royally. Those have tough, 3-dimensional characters. Grease doesn't, and therefore it's a perfect learning experience. They can, and I'm sure will, get better over time. About who's most important to the story...that's Danny, no doubt.

Ray - The thing about Grease is that it's a relatively critic-proof show. No matter how good or bad the reviews are, it'll still run for a long time. It's selling very well and the audience is adoring it. Wonderful comments from the critics would be great, but if they don't get them, it's not too detrimental.

I think that the critics are out for blood with this revival (due mainly to reality show casting), especially the old timers who think that Broadway's going to hell no matter who stars. In my opinion, Max's accent is the least of the production's problems. It's not terribly distracting, but it's visibly put-on.

Regarding "Hopelessly Devoted," I'm still trying to figure out why they put it in Act II. Sandy's got plenty of stage time in the second act, as opposed to the first where she's got none. I feel that putting "HD" in the first act would actually help develop the character. Danny's such a prick to her in Act I, we have no idea why she still wants him. Having "HD" somewhere there would explain it.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 22:02, 2007-08-02

Ray · Senior Member

MrE -
What you say about the placing of HD makes so much sense, and would seem to solve some basic structural problems, it's puzzling that the experts are oblivious. Unless they tried it and felt that it slowed things down where they wanted to grab the audience.

If Max's accent is the least of the production's problems, I won't worry about it....I'll worry about something else.

Surely they have somebody perusing the boards as a source of feedback during previews. It would be wonderful if your suggestions get incorporated and save the day.

MrE1111 · Guru

I'd get a kick out of it if that happened! I'm actually planning to go back in a month or two when they're all settled in...I can't even imagine how hard I'd laugh if I saw they used some of my suggestions. I just hope I'd get credit!

I don't know if it's "obliviousness" on their part, or just that they want to try something new. Placing "Hopelessly" in Act I has already been done (on one of the tours, I believe), so perhaps they wanted to put a new spin on it.

I wish that my suggestions would be taken seriously by anyone on the team who may be message board hopping...they may not solve all the problems with the show, but they'd at least solve what I consider to be a biggie.

DogsandBirds · Guru

I was at the gypsy dress rehearsal and I will be there opening night. I will let you know what I think was changed, if I can remember in all my excitment!

I am also going again on August 25 with family. I think I have become a Grease junkie - hope there is no cure!!

Maxismylove · Senior Member

Although I truly appreciate and respect all the opinions of the posters on this board I would like to make a comment.
Grease is a show where the characters are not really very deep and they are high school age. I think that is exactly how Max and Laura are playing them and how they were directed.
To say that Max or Laura would "be screwed royally" if they had to perform real 3 dimentional characters is quite a statement. Both of these kids has had 17 years of being on the stage and if you look at their resume's they have played some tough characters and played them in professional theatres and were extraordinary.
Agreed that it was not Broadway experience and this is the big time, but I think you under estimate their talent based on a reality show and a performance in Grease.
Everyone has to start somewhere don't they?

MrE1111 · Guru

Oh, that's just taking my comments out of turn.

My exact words were:

...This is the PERFECT show for two young, otherwise inexperienced actors to hone and develop professional stage skills. If they were in a production of, oh, Gypsy or Guys and Dolls, they'd be screwed royally. Those have tough, 3-dimensional characters. Grease doesn't, and therefore it's a perfect learning experience. They can, and I'm sure will, get
better over time.
As you so perfectly stated, the characters aren't very deep. It's the job of the actor to give the characters personality. To define the characters. To make them real. That is why Grease is the perfect show for them. They can learn, though time, how to do this. They still can figure out how to develop a character, to give their character a firm definition.

When I said "they'd be screwed royally" I meant that they'd be in major trouble if they were to start their Broadway career in a show like Gypsy, where all of the characters go through a major journey and are completely changed by the end. No matter what roles they played in their youth, wherever they played them, good or bad, the standards and stakes are much higher on Broadway. Max and Laura still haven't had the growth opportunities that many other performers do.

I have no doubt they're talented. You don't hear a crystal-clear voice like Laura's every day. You don't see actors with half as much spunk as Max has every day. Notice the last line of my quote above.

Of course everyone has to start somewhere, but when they're thrown cold onto Broadway, the critics don't give a hoot how good they were in their community theater productions. The NY critics didn't see Laura as Peter Pan, they didn't see Max in what he's done. They probably didn't even watch the reality show. The NY critics are so harsh that I am personally afraid for them if the show is skewered. It will definitely be a sobering and extremely depressing reality check if the notices are poor. If I could give them one piece of advice, as a friend of a few of Broadway actors, it would be to NOT READ REVIEWS.

I hope that clarifies my statement and if I offended anyone with my terminology, I do apologize.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 02:39, 2007-08-03

Maxismylove · Senior Member

Believe me when I say that I understand what you are saying. The thing is that you don't know them and you don't know what they are capable of (I am including the entire cast as they are all incredibly talented) performance wise.
What I am saying is that you cannot judge any of them globally based on this production and these characters they are playing.
Please don't be so afraid for the kids and especially for Max and Laura as they have been preparing for the critics since November of last year when they made the show. They are completely aware of how that particular group has received them and how they will critique them. Kathleen has prepared them very well.
Will it still sting a little? Absolutely. They will not be devasted or suddenly sobered up from a la la land of "we are so wonderful and everyone is going to fall in love us once they see us".
Each performance they improve because of the encouragement they receive from the audience. They know they have work to do, but the audience with their excitement and the hearts they have for these kids to suceed is what they will get their fuel from and the NY critics cannot take that away from them.

MrE1111 · Guru

Oh, I'll happily admit that you know them much better than I do. You, of course, are direct family, who has seen them grow through the years.

I am at a disadvantage, as all I can go by is what I saw at the Atkinson. I have no doubt that they have a great career ahead of them. They just have to work on honing their skills and turning themselves from small-town dinner theater performers to the Broadway stars they have potential to become.

I wasn't judging them based on how talented they are...I was saying what I thought of their performance in the show. You can't judge anyone's talent based on Grease.

As an aside, my instant reaction as I left the theater yesterday was "how long before they're on Law and Order?" I don't know how familiar you are with it, but the bulk of the actors in bit-roles every episode are NY theater people. There's an old saying...You can tell you've made it in theater once you've been on Law and Order.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 03:52, 2007-08-03

Maxismylove · Senior Member

I apologize if I came accross defensive because I am not trying to be and your comments did not strike that cord with me at all.
You can never tell with written word exactly how someone is trying to say something, so I wanted to make sure that you knew that.
I guess to me it is not important to take so much merit and to create so much fear of a group of people that can easily be predicted and where you cannot do anything to change it.
From all that I have read in the past 10 months, they are critical of everyone right?
I know it is important and means something in the industry and I don't know probably dictates your future opportunities on Broadway.
I think that the rest of the cast will fare much better than Max and Laura with the reviews because of the stigma of GYTOTIW.
They need to consentrate on getting better and improving on the notes they get each day from their beloved director. They love her. The show will mature and we will all enjoy it just that much more.
We are going to the evening August 19th premiere, but will be seeing it on August 17th as well.
I would love to see statistics that start the week of July 23rd that can some way quantitatively show the gradual increase in Broadway show sales due to all the people coming to see Grease.
We have tickets to Spring Awakenings, Hairspray to see beautiful Ashley and the Lion King.
The people coming don't normaly come to NY to see Broadway shows and now they are seeing 2, 3 and 4 shows. That is because of GYTOTIW and not just because of Laura and Max.

Maxismylove · Senior Member

I forgot one thing. Law and Order is my all time favorite show and I have seen every episode I think. I don't know that many Broadway actors so would not recognize them. I have seen Patti Lapone on several episodes and when I met the Grease cast I was so excited to meet Susan who plays Miss Lynch as she is my favorite Law and Order judge.
I told Max that it would be the highlight of his career for me if he was in a scene with Sam Waterston. He is my favorite since The Killing Fields.

MrE1111 · Guru

No, I understood where you're coming from as well, don't worry. You're his mother, afterall! Besides, a spirited debate is good every once in a while, no? Just know that I mean no malace, either.

Regarding the critics, yes they generally comment on everyone and everything. However, since Max and Laura's faces are on every program cover, poster, promo item, etc., I'm sure the critics will be commenting mostly on their performances. To most theater insiders, the critics are terrifying people (when in reality, they're all nebbishy, unassuming people who walk out before the show ends). In the end, everyone is judged the same (and a "good" professional critic like Brantley of the NY Times won't be gunning for them them just because they were on a TV show.)

Back in "the day," the New York Times had the ability to close a show on opening night if ticket sales weren't good enough. Nowadays, even a show with the worst reviews and ticket sales can eek it out for a few weeks. Grease, as I said before, is thankfully critic-proof. Because of the TV show, what they say doesn't really matter. The show is sold out for a long time and even the worst reviews couldn't close it any time soon.

Bad reviews don't really dictate your future. Unless you're a star (and therefore can choose what parts you want to play), everyone goes in to the same audition room to sing for the same casting agents.

It does help not to read the reviews. Helps a great deal, good or bad.

Marshall's a fabulous director (which is why I was puzzled by some of her choices with this show). I'm sure everyone will grow and get better (and I plan on going back once they're settled and once the Standing Room policiy begins).

Enjoy your trip to my lovely home...nothing like a summer in NYC. Have fun at the opening!

PS: I love L&O, too!

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 04:54, 2007-08-03

greatwhiteway · Senior Member

-- Edited by greatwhiteway at 04:56, 2007-08-03

MrE1111 · Guru

Edited, since the last post was edited.

I will say this (before I head out): even in a show I hate, I try to find something good. The actors are just doing their jobs, trying to thrill people who've paid upwards of $120 to see a show.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 05:02, 2007-08-03

Laura Mom · Senior Member

I'm enjoying the duet going on here from the sidelines. I very respectfully agree with Rachel that Max and Laura could both show off much more of the skills they have developed over the years in a different type of show--one that actually demands more of their characters. Be a little careful calling them "small town dinner theatre" performers. Minneapolis has Tony award winning theatres and is the second ranking city in the nation (behind New York) for number of theatre seats per capita. We are a very serious and talented theatre city. We have a Children's Theatre rated in the top 4 in the world, two Tony award winning regional theatres, the largest dinner theatre in the country....and I could go on. Phoenix isn't exactly a small town either and Rachel could certainly fill us in on more details of Max's performing background. But I also agree with the other side of this duet in that "Grease" gives Max and Laura a chance to try to produce something significant in their characters even when the script is as relatively limited as "Grease" is. That is a unique challenge that is probably new to both Max and Laura and has a chance to grow them in a unique new way. However, they are also limited to within the confines of the director's guidance and the script itself, so that can restrict their options on how to try to do that too. It would be interesting to see how ANY more experienced actor (Max and Laura are only 21 years old afterall, despite their theatre filled histories) could or would pull from their experience and bring something else to the characters of Sandy and Danny beyond what Max and Laura are attempting. The only thing I have personally thought of is if they could both remind us in some subtle way every time they are on stage of how "lonely" they are without the other. We get a chance with the script to see little glimpses of this in Sandy (singing Raining on Prom Night and Hopelessly Devoted) but we don't get those same kind of glimpses from Danny in the script. He goes to the prom without Sandy and we never know he wanted to take her or that he misses her. He dances with Rizzo and Cha Cha, wins the dance competition, and leaves with Cha Cha. Could he somehow show us subtly that he's missing Sandy and wishing he was there with her? That might be an actors choice to try to create. I don't know. Then after the prom scene when they show up at the drive in together again I want to say as an audience member, "Hey, what happened? How did they get back together again?" There is just nothing in the script linking us there! Perhaps experience could really work at trying to show us more of how awkward, hurt, confused...(whatever else) they both are feeling being there and how desperately they wish they could recover what they had last summer. HOW would they do that? I don't know! Beyond these thoughts I'm at a lost to see how ANYONE could bring more to Sandy and Danny in this script than Max and Laura do--even a more veteraned Broadway performer. MrE1111?

Foveator · Member

I have to agree with most of the previous comments. I liked some things about the show and found other things a bit disjointed. It is difficult not to compare the show to the movie as everyone has seen the movie and knows that storyline.

We saw preview performance 2 on July 25th and the show does need work, but this (hopefully) is a work in progress and will get a lot of polish before it officially opens in a few weeks.

I was surprised that the first preview performance was the night before we saw the show and that Opening Night is August 19. I'd like to see it again when the bugs are worked out. It would be nice if we could get a discount on those tickets as we were expecting a polished performance when we purchased our tickets at full price. This was not that performance. Since this is a work in progress, my comments are only meant to focus on things I thought were weak. Think of it as gift to the management for sending us the early tickets. As Elton John's song goes -sort of- , "That's Why They Call Them PRE-VUES".

The canned music played on the house sound system before the show began was at times painfully loud. By the time the show began, the sound had been properly adjusted.

I enjoyed the show. I felt the stage area was more comparable to our tiny Goodspeed Opera House here in Connecticut than a Broadway theater, making it difficult to stage any showstopper numbers. (The seats in the Brooks Atkinson Theater, however, are more comfortable than Goodspeed's). It quickly because obvious that an orchestra pit in front of the stage would have eaten up much precious space, so I feel the elevated orchestra high above the stage was a novel and effective alternative. Music director Kimberly Grisby added more visual action to some musical scenes with her enthusiastic dancing/conducting than was present on the stage below. I didn't know that was a requirement for music director, but she did set a positive mood with her obvious passion. I think she kept her ensemble and the performance tight with the actors seeing their cues from her on video monitors mounted at the front of the balcony. When the action on stage lagged, I found myself glancing over to the monitor.

Laura is a beautiful girl who is turned into a meek, almost mousy victim of a character through much of the show. When they finally allow her to blossom into the maximum potential of her character during the "You're the One that I Want" number, they have her dressed in a costume that would work better at Halloween. PLEASE make her glamorous AND beautiful. (She already is, just don't lose it.) She did a terrific job and will undoubtedly grow as she gets more performances under her belt. She does appear small onstage compared to her peers, but her voice is wonderful. When her signature vocal came on, I expected that "Hopelessly Devoted to You" would bring down the house. It seemed to get a lukewarm reception. During the TV tryouts, she repeatedly belted out that song. For whatever the reason, during the performance, the magic wasn't there. No tingles. I understand there is a transformation occurring in Sandy, but I think they set the bar too low as a starting point. Either sound or choreography needs help here.

I found Max to be a lovable leader who can dance and sing, although his signature song "Sandy "also fell short of my expectations. Perhaps the overexposure of the song on TV biased our expectation, but I had hoped for more. He performed confidently and sang very well. Perhaps a bit more real choreography and a bit less attempted arial gymnastics with his dance partners during some numbers would have made his dancing ability more obvious.

The breakout performer/ performance in my opinion was Daniel Everidge who plays Roger. Great voice and stage presence. Over the top and exceptionally talented. Daniel reminds me of a performance I saw by Meatloaf back in 1973 when he was touring with a National Lampoon show playing college campuses. I predict a great future for Dan in the performance arts.

Jenny Powers as Rizzo is a powerful singer and performer. I thought her character came on too tough and strong and overpowered the show. A stronger Laura would have countered that effect. Rizzo is a tough girl with a tiny bit of wholesomeness trying to break out, while Laura is almost all wholesomeness with a tiny bit of toughness trying to break out. We know what happens in the end, but I feel most of the show was out of balance with those two characters.

The show itself appears to have been put together as snippets of dialog from other versions of the musical and movie. There is something called storyline that is missing. This is currently a boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy suddenly is back with girl, boy loses girl again, girl wants boy, not sure if boy wants girl, boy loses girl again, girl changes, everything's okay storyline that doesn't flow. One scene, in Jan's rec room (according to the program) Sandy has to leave and take her record player with her. As she packs up, everyone else leaves. The final line has her asking Frenchy to come over with makeup to set up the transformation. There is little continuity. It first appears to be someone else's house, then it appears to be Sandy's house, leaving the audience confused. Then suddenly, it snaps into the transformation scene and Danny, who has been out of the loop, is now in the loop and everything is back to normal with a happy ending. The classical musicals of yesteryear had happy endings with everyone getting back together, usually after some convoluted story interaction. In this one, it just happens; like a bungee cord snapping our characters together. This revival needs a new number RIGHT HERE to clear up the storyline and lead into YTOTIW.

This performance of GREASE was no SPAMALOT or THE PRODUCERS or even SPELLING BEE. Portions of the show got bogged down in what I suspect were supposed to be moments of dramatic stress. To me, the show just got stuck. I hope as the players get more familiar with their roles and the stage mechanics, that will disappear. Max and Laura are obviously younger and less experienced than the rest of the cast, but that was not the problem. The problem is that the show is a batch of musical numbers without much storyline to hold it together. We can't help but compare this to the movie that did have a storyline.

In an era of larger than life musicals on Broadway, except for the terrific and creative BurgerPalace set, most of the sets were minimalist. I felt something was missing. I wanted everything to be bigger than life, yet sets seemed small and restricted making it harder to achieve the showstopper effect from a number. The marvelous "Beauty School Dropout" number came close, but because it fades away at the end, the audience doesn't erupt in applause (which they really want to do). As time goes on, I can see many guest cameos in the role of Teen Angel and find the thought of females (a fairy Godmother) could be hysterical.

To their credit, Max and Laura spent a lot of time with their adoring fans after the show at the stage door which included a large percentage of youngsters for this first matinee performance. They signed autographs and posed for photos which I'm sure will be treasured by the fans.

I don't think anyone left disappointed.

-- Edited by Foveator at 03:30, 2007-08-04

MrE1111 · Guru

Rachel/Foveator - forgive me for responding to you both at the same time, but it's jsut easier, since your statements echo each other.

Yeah, one of the (many) huge problems with Grease are the plot-holes, which are made significantly worse in this production.

I will say this, comparing my copy of the script to what I saw at the theater: there's a distinct stage direction that reads "Danny takes the record album from Cha-Cha, giving her his trophy in exchange and exits...She is left alone."

For some reason, they now leave together, just for Sandy to see them and sing "Hopelessly Devoted." And then they're back together at the dinner theater. I completely understand how the kneejerk reaction is "what the heck!?" That's why I keep saying they should have it in Act I, where it fits.

At the end of "Worse Things", Sandy sings the "Sandra Dee" reprise. Again, in the original script (and this is, along with the other problem, is what really kills me about this production), it states: "Lights fade out on Rizzo as Sandy exits in tears carrying her record player. She goes into her bedroom and sits down on her bed, dejectedly. She sings a reprise of Sandra Dee."

As Foveator said, Rizzo now leaves and Sandy sings the song in Jan's rec room, after saying how she has to go home. Regarding the transformation scene, there's actually a lot of dialogue that got cut in the process of adding "One That I Want." Danny, of course, is overjoyed that Sandy now "looks prettier and more alive than she ever has." Patty calls her a floozy, and then Sandy punches her in the eye. Danny says "oh, you're somethin' else." And before Sandy can say "tell me about it, stud" she "makes a classic gesture...better known as an "up yours" gesture." Song ends, all is well.

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that the continuity problems are very noticable. The way it's done in this production makes a problematic show worse. And that is by no fault of the cast.

The problem is that the show is a batch of musical numbers without much storyline to hold it together. We can't help but compare this to the movie that did have a storyline. That has always been the problem. Since the show came first, I give a lot of credit to whoever wrote the screenplay for actually creating a story. Notice how the movie focuses on Danny and Sandy, while they have the least stagetime together in the show. I think that was part of the deception of the TV show. For people unfamiliar with the stage version, you don't realize that. I've always thought that the TV show would have been better as a search for Danny and Rizzo, but that's just based on my prior knowledge of the stage play.
----
Jane, perhaps I was a little too harsh immediately writing off their theatrical backgrounds. And for that, I must apologize if you were upset by my comments. Could a more veteran performer get more out of Danny and Sandy? Maybe, maybe not. Max and Laura do a very admirable job and, as I've said a million times before, they'll grow and figure it out.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 13:24, 2007-08-03

Kait · Senior Member

What an invigorating discussion! I can only respond as a fan with little knowledge of Broadway: if a hundred critics expressed dislike for this show, it would have zero impact on my desire to attend.

Although the Grease characters may have little depth, they are lovable and lovably flawed. Most folks who attended public school (even the older kids who aren't quite high school age yet) will understand the archetypes, who ring as true to today's kids as to Fifties greasers. There are still good girls and bad boys, although styles have changed. I don't think we watch Grease for the 'aha' moment, but for the 'smile' moment when we see pieces of ourselves, of our friends, of our past... or for the kids, maybe catch a glimpse of our future. That was the promise I saw in Max's and Laura's NBC show performances. They caught that moment for me as no one had. I believe that Kathleen Marshall saw that chemistry during the last two shows. If they can get to that moment again, even in an otherwise flawed production, I'll be happy.

That being said, I'd love to see Sandy get ample stage time in this production because the character is very relatable. However, I'll be satisfied to hear passionate, petite Laura sing anything at all. And Max! I don't know how well it comes across on the Broadway stage, but he showed a great knack for conveying the lyrics with his voice, his facial expressions, his mannerisms. I'm going to follow the kid's career. Now that I've read a few early reviews, I'm excited about seeing the rest of the cast.

Yes, I'm a gushing fan. But I'm a gushing fan with money, so look out NYC, here I come.

-- Edited by Kait at 16:02, 2007-08-03

DogsandBirds · Guru

Welcome to NYC Kait! I know you will like (love) what you see!

MrE1111 · Guru

Yes, do enjoy your trip! When do you arrive?

Kait · Senior Member

Oh, Mr. E, not yet. That last statement was rhetorical. As it stands, we'll be coming to NYC in the spring, either during my kids' spring break or soon after their school year ends. We're all M/L fans.

MrE1111 · Guru

Oh, I see.

Well, enjoy no matter when you come!

DogsandBirds · Guru

Best time of year to come to NYC other than Christmas! Weather is usually good and Macy's flower show is up as well as the one in Rock Center.

Twelve tons of things to do in NYC - Grease will be cherry on the cake wink

Ray · Senior Member

This is one of the most interesting and stimulating threads in the history of threads.
It makes me want to run to NY to see if Kathleen & Company are really as inept as the criticisms suggest....and they all seem like basic, major, obvious flaws that could and should be corrected.
My only concern here is Max and Laura....they would feel better and look better if the show made sense. Is that too much to ask? Really!!!!

reniefran · Senior Member

After reading several posts here it sounds llike the major issues in the show have to do with the way that it is staged. Actors can only work with what they have and it sounds like what they have needs work. But isn't that what the previews are for? I mean the first real performance was only a few days ago. My hope is that Kathleen Marshall as she is looking at things is thinking about at the very least placing the songs differently so that things make sense. I think it was Mr. E who said that Grease is more of an ensemble show and that as such there are not a lot of plot twists and character development. Having said that I believe that Max and Laura have the guts to make this work for them, they have the perserverance as they more than amply showed when they did the TV show and they have outstanding acting and musical ability. My take on it is that they will work these roles until they show the best of their abilities. Lest we forget previews as I understand them mean that this is a work in progress for cast and director. I will be interested to see how much things have changed by opening night. My advice to cast and director is to plan your work and then work your plan. I'm not concerned about reviews either because I am like someone maybe the post I responded to I would go regardless of the reviews, sometimes I might go in spite of the reviews because even a review is one person's opinion of what they saw. So to all those who have yet to go I say forget about the reviews personal and otherwise and just go and have a blast! smile

MrE1111 · Guru

I'm glad everyone is finding this thread so informative.

I hope, as well, that Marshall and Co. can work out the major flaws that are so prevalent in this production. It would be very interesting to see how they progress over the next few days.

I believe they begin press performances around the 16th, so the show will be frozen and the tinkering will stop a few days prior to that.

All I wish is that I'd be in town for the opening (I do love reading the major reviews the morning after), but I'll be in the United Kingdom. Ironically, I'll be over there when David Ian's other production of Grease opens!

Ray · Senior Member

Work in progress.....let's hope it progresses.

The rationale behind singing is that the emotion is too powerful to be contained in mere speech.
From what I've read, it seems that "HD" and "Sandy" are falling flat, because the love relationship has not been established. The singers and audience have not been prepared for such overt declarations of love. They are just well-known, obligatory songs that have to be stuck in somewhere. At least, that's the impression I have from what I've read.

grannygreaser · Senior Member

MrE1111 wrote:
..., but I'll be in the United Kingdom. Ironically, I'll be over there when David Ian's other production of Grease opens!

I have been thinking about that production and wondering how it is faring. It opened in previews a few days after the Broadway one and so far I haven't found any comments on it. (But then I haven't been looking too hard.) I think it is following the original production more. I would like to hear how that one is going. Are you thinking about seeing it?

ddktt · Veteran Member

Although the Grease characters may have little depth, they are lovable and lovably flawed. Most folks who attended public school (even the older kids who aren't quite high school age yet) will understand the archetypes, who ring as true to today's kids as to Fifties greasers. There are still good girls and bad boys, although styles have changed. I don't think we watch Grease for the 'aha' moment, but for the 'smile' moment when we see pieces of ourselves,

The trouble with this show as it stands now is that it does NOT communicate the archetypes so there is not the fun of the 'aha' moment. As I mentioned in my comments on the other review thread and has been so well stated on this thread this is not the fault of the performers. It is the fault of the whole package. Fifty years later the recognition of what a true greaser is has faded. The movie coming along in the eighties muddied the water even more. Removing virtually all plot elements (and adding some confusing things like Max leaving with Cha-Cha) makes it even worse. Muddle it up with a mixed bag of costuming and sets that don't fit the social class of the characters or the era (mid-century modern decor and Jackie Kennedy outfits on Rizzo) and it's a mess with some good songs and dance numbers.

The t.v. show was better and the tapings I went to were fantastic!

if a hundred critics expressed dislike for this show, it would have zero impact on my desire to attend.
Me too. I wouldn't have missed it because I was hooked on the show from beginning to end. THey have people like me to buy tickets so David Ian is probably happy with what he's got. I will be interested to hear if they fix the things that we all seem able to see.

I don't think anyone left disappointed.

I was disappointed and I expected much more.

-- Edited by ddktt at 20:47, 2007-08-03

MrE1111 · Guru

Ray - yes, that's a big part of the problem. The 2 "replacement songs" aren't going over as best they could because there's no development of the relationship. I think Laura's been quoted in interviews as saying that "in every scene they're in, Danny and Sandy fight."

The replacement song is much more sentimental in every possible way than the original.

Here are the lyrics to "Alone at a Drive-in Movie," which was replaced by "Sandy."
I'm all alone at the drive-in movie. It's a feelin' that ain't too groovy, watchin' werewolves without you. Gee it's no fun drinkin' beer in the back seat. All alone just ain't neat at the passion pit, wanting you. And when the intermission elf moves the clock's hands while he's eating everything sold at the stand. When there's one minute to go till the lights go down low, I'll be holding the speaker knobs missing you so. I can't believe it, unsteamed windows I can see through. Might as well be in an igloo 'cause the heater doesn't work...as good as you.

Mentioning no characters, this is just a general "gee, it sucks to be alone" song. When there's no build up to a relationship, that's okay. When there's no build up to a relationship, having "Sandy" just doesn't pack the punch it could.

grannygreaser - No, I wasn't planning to see it at all. Two productions of the same show in a week's time is too much! I will, however, be happy to post whatever reviews I find...I believe I arrive in London the day the show opens.

ddktt · Veteran Member

No, I wasn't planning to see it at all. Two productions of the same show in a week's time is too much! I will, however, be happy to post whatever reviews I find...I believe I arrive in London the day the show opens.

Oh boo!! Since you've worked on the show so many times I don't blame you, but I for one would love to hear how they compare--from YOU personally.

How did they (if they did) solve the problems with this show for today's audiences? The original show was very raunchy. I wonder if they'll keep that aspect there?

MrE1111 · Guru

Yeah, at this point the only way I'd see it is if someone gives me freebies...but I doubt that'll happen.

The original show was indeed very raunchy (imagine every insult only 10x worse..."Hey, Cram it!" was originally "Hey, Eat Me!"), but it's become quite tame through the years. None of the versions since the original production has used such harsh phrasing, so I expect that this London production will be the same. From what I've heard, it's a revival of the same production that played London 5-10 years ago, only with the leads cast via reality show.

It's not as "experimental" as the Broadway staging is.

ddktt · Veteran Member

Foveator wrote:

In an era of larger than life musicals on Broadway, except for the terrific and creative BurgerPalace set, most of the sets were minimalist. I felt something was missing. I wanted everything to be bigger than life, yet sets seemed small and restricted making it harder to achieve the showstopper effect from a number. The marvelous "Beauty School Dropout" number came close, but because it fades away at the end, the audience doesn't erupt in applause (which they really want to do). As time goes on, I can see many cameos in that role"

I was at the same performance as you were and I totally agree with your whole review.

RE: Cameos. I thought the same thing! If Austin came out as teen angel it would bring the house down!