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Post Info TOPIC: The Official Review Thread


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RE: The Official Review Thread
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Thanks Mr. E, I'll keep you guys posted.  Although I think there is a probably less than zero percent chance he'll even read it.  I just am amazed that I had this reaction since I am really a very normal everyday person.  It just goes to show you that theater and art in general can really move people!!!
Max fans unite!!  haha...

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KoKo3 wrote:

I couldn't let this go....I just emailed Mr. Simon my two cents, here is an excerpt:

Dear Mr. Simon,
I know that you have probably received many emails on this topic so far but I just wanted to add mine for whatever its worth.  I saw Grease last week and I felt exactly the opposite about the effect of Max Crumm.  I happened to be an attractive mid-thirties educated professional and I find Max to be quite the opposite of dork or goon.  He radiates a quality that may be lost on men, but women happen to find him sensitive and good looking with a quality to make women feel weak in the knees.  Isnt the reaction Danny Zuko is supposed to elicit?  Maybe you should have mentioned how many female fans Max has and that although you find him dorky, the ladies seem to go crazy for him.  That is the true test of sex appeal, womens reaction.  You seemed to find Laura Osnes delectable.  Max has plenty of sex appeal, enough that the nation wide audience of that crazy reality show chose him over an over muscled, soap opera handsome type actor.  Wake up and ask the ladies next time you call a leading man a goon.
Okay I feel better!K


With all due respect, the comments that you wrote to Simon have clearly been written by a narrow-minded Middle-American. 

First off, what does your physical appearance and age have anything to do with your argument?  By the way, you never mention your gender and sexual orientation, so what do you expect him to conclude based on the two pieces of personal information you provide at the start of your sad, ignorant argument?

You state that you're "educated" and then proceed to fail to use punctuation and skip a word in one of your sentences (see the underlined sentence).  Educated people proof read before they submit a letter that they expect to be given some level of credibility.

But that is not the big problem with your statement.  The major offense here is that you place all "women" in one cardboard box and all "men" in another.  Believe it or not, many WOMEN are attracted to WOMEN, not men, and many MEN (MOST men in the theatre community) are attracted to MEN, not women.  It's called homosexuality.  Heard of it?  By using "women" as an example of a group that makes of half the population and are all attracted to men, and vice versa, you have succeeded in invalidating your entire thesis.

Your argument essentially assumes that not only is Simon straight, but that his critical skills are honed by his penis, not by his experience studying the science of theatre criticism.  You're saying that "women" should be judging the physical attractiveness of men, regardless of their skills in criticism, simply because "women" are attracted to "men."  Generalization after generalization after generalization.

If I were Simon, I would have deleted your e-mail after reading the first couple sentences. 

Your ignornace is mind-boggling and plain sad.  Wake up.

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Max Boyfriend
I'm out of this site, I really thought it was a good one but clearly I was wrong, you sir, and I use that term loosely, are no gentleman.

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Take it easy Max Boyfriend. Many, but not most of Broadway is gay. Lots of straight men there, but what does that have to do with her email to Simon?

She is allowed to think what she wants, just as you are but, in an effort to express yourself, you could be a bit kinder.

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Age and physical appearance has a lot to do with her argument - she's detailing what she, and arguably the rest of the crowd, feels for Max. The audience is filled with a large amount of attractive younger women who do have a thing for him. I'm sure the audience is filled with the same amount of homosexual men who feel the same way.  She wrote her letter from the female perspective because one can assume that yes, koko is female.

Happily being a heterosexual male, I cannot speak for either group.

Just as a point of info, Simon (who I believe is heterosexual) has spent most of his career criticizing the physical appearances of actors, mostly female. Many of his columns, especially from his heyday, have to do with actors being wrong for the parts because they're ugly.

Can't wait to see how everyone responds.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 03:37, 2007-08-24

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Aw c'mon KoKo we are a great group of Max lovers here....don't let one rotten apple spoil your fun. Besides you are right...and fortuneately I could appreciate your point even without that missing word. Did I spell fortuneately right?

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KoKo3 wrote:

Max Boyfriend
I'm out of this site, I really thought it was a good one but clearly I was wrong, you sir, and I use that term loosely, are no gentleman.




Damn right I'm no "gentleman."  I'm just a plain old human being.

Not many of those where you come from either?



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wow life of the party

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smile

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Alright, I'm not letting Max boyfriend run me off.  Listen, I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.  I wrote that email in a rush today between my hectic life.  I think in retrospect I wouldn't have sent it if I had thought and revised and pondered and considered the homosexual point of view, etc.  I just wrote it in the moment and sent it.  I will say that your attitude is what is off putting to a lot of "middle America" (by the way, who in the world do you think voted Max where he is now. And isn't Grease a middle America kind of show, not a erudite deep thought provoking play) about the stereotypical "Broadway" types.  Lighten up man, write your own email to the man if you have a different viewpoint and quit attacking fellow Max and Grease fans. 



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It has nothing to do with considering "the homosexual point of view."  It's actually a lot simpler than that.  It's considering the human point of view.  Period. 

When you make a blanket generalization about one gender's sexual orientation as a whole, you're disregarding the existence of each and every human being that doesn't fit that bill.  That's what my issue was.  I found your post "off-putting" because you made several statements referring to each gender as a whole, completely leaving out a group of people in each gender as though they do not exist. 

You didn't say "straight women."  You just said "women," and proceeded to write as though all women are of the same sexual orientation.  You didn't say "straight men."  You just said "men," and went on as though all "men" were attracted to the opposite gender. 

It's about being inclusive and specific, as not to disregard the existences of people who are not like you.

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I just finished reading a write up (certainly is not a review) from some moron here in Boulder, CO.  I received it via a Google alert for Max Crumm...Grease.  This person hasn't even seen the show and is bashing it based on other reviews.  Is it a common practice to do so?  Obviously, this guy believes himself to be smart and cute....YUK!!

Here is the link.....


http://blogs.citylightsguide.com/outtolunch/2007/08/23/grease-is-no-longer-the-word/



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It's just a blog.  It's not a published review which would have required that he see the show.  It's just his opinion.  Everybody has one.  He's making speculations based on what he has read without having to spend the money to see a show he has heard mostly awful things about from the published reviews.

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Okay, MaxBF, olive branch...peace....I give....I really did not mean to be offensive.  I realize that I am new to this forum but felt so strongly about defending Max when the critic referenced him in such a negative way that I just sent the email.  I really shouldn't have posted it here, I realize now, and hope we can put this issue to rest.  We both seem to be fans of Grease/Max/Laura.  And of course I realize not everyone is just like me.  That is part of Max's charm, he appeals to a wide variety of human beings and I was just voicing MY opinion. I guess I got caught up in the moment.  I'll just call it a Max attack.....

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Theatermania,
I got that same Google alert re: the guy who didn't review the Broadway show but commented on no less than the whole of America's stupidity. I agree with you. He's a sanctimonious jerk.

I love Boulder. My brother (dec.) lived around Lyons and Longmont.

-- Edited by Kait at 14:13, 2007-08-24

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I have been sitting back reading the thread posts for the past two days and finally decided to join.  The atmosphere has been a bit nasty and unwelcoming for newcomers.  This seems to be on the part of Mr. Max Boyfriend.  I just needed to add my two cents before fully enjoying the forum.  There is this little thing in this country called freedom of speech.  The ultimate idea here is to be able to listen to someone, disagree if you choose, and respectfully not tear apart their character.  Not one person on this thread has degrade anyone elses lifestyle choices, social class, gender or sex.  However you stereotyped and wiped out a large part of what makes up our country (and in turn what keeps all of our freedom) ...Middle America. 

Oh and by the way, I have been reading pasts posts and found 3 gramatically incorrect errors, you are never really suppose to end a sentence in "with" and " though".


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That last paragraph was for you Mr. Max Boyfriend.

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Wow. You know, DivaMom, there are a lot of true Grease on Broadway fans on this board. Stick with us, okay? For the most part, people here are fair, if perhaps slightly skewed in favor of the Grease cast, because we love 'em. I think we just hit a touchy spot with MaxBF. (Not to speak for you, MBF, but that's how you're coming across to me.)

I am about as middle-American as a person can get. From Kansas. While a few of my "neighbors" have prejudices about gender/sexuality issues, not everyone does, believe me.

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Welcome divamomcandoitall. I find your username to be AWESOME!!!!!!! Thank you for finding the courage to join this forum and responding to this particular thread at its all time low. If you continue to read other threads, you will find that most of us are fun-loving fans with strong opinions!!!!!
Again, thank you for joining and keep the positive posts coming!!!


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Hey, who was it who suggested that Grease attendees should post their own reviews via the available venues? DogsandBirds, was that you? I'd love to know how to get to these sites, if anyone knows. (I'd love to read what other non-critics are saying. I'd also love to offer my review when the time comes.)

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Welcome Diva. If there is truly freedom of speech, then Max Boyfriend has the right to air his views. I don't have to agree with someone to defend their constitutional to do so.

As far as grammar goes, let's not nit pick. We do make mistakes when we post. I always have difficultly proofreading my own work as I, as others do, overlook the mistake. To prove this, when it was posted, I saw two errors.

If you want to be kind, remember being kind to Max Boyfriend is just as important as being kind to anyone else on the board.


-- Edited by DogsandBirds at 15:55, 2007-08-24

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Wow, divamom....thanks.....

Okay, no more inflammatory (even if I was just defending Max) comments from me.  Just smile and wave....... 


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KoKo:  Olive branch taken and shared.

divamomcandoitall wrote:
The atmosphere has been a bit nasty and unwelcoming for newcomers.  This seems to be on the part of Mr. Max Boyfriend. 


In case you didn't notice, I am just as much a newcomer as KoKo and many others.  I joined the Forum just two days ago and have only made a handful of posts.

divamomcandoitall wrote:


Not one person on this thread has degrade anyone elses lifestyle choices, social class, gender or sex.


I notice that you didn't mention sexual orientation.  Unless you were substituting "lifestyle choices" for sexual orientation, in which case it would seem that you have a biased view of homosexuality and sexual orientation in general.  

A person's sexual orientation is not a "lifestyle choice."  Every person is born straight, gay, bisexual, or transgender.  Being gay is not a choice.  It is just as real and permanent as your being straight.

Did you know that?  In case there's something I don't understand, in which case please feel free to fill me in.

divamomcandoitall wrote:


There is this little thing in this country called freedom of speech.  The ultimate idea here is to be able to listen to someone, disagree if you choose, and respectfully not tear apart their character. 

 
Funny that you mention this, given the fact that you have just disregarded my existence by labeling my orientation a "lifestyle choice."  Care to elaborate?

divamomcandoitall wrote:
Oh and by the way, I have been reading pasts posts and found 3 gramatically incorrect errors, you are never really suppose to end a sentence in "with" and " though".


First off, my comment on her grammar was in regards to the fact that she was writing a letter to a published writer in which she was trying to make a point and be seen as an equal.  We, on the other hand, are on a message board.

And I don't know where (if?) you went to college, but sentences can indeed end in "though."  I'm not sure whether you know that, though.


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My homosexual friends consider their homosexuality to be a "lifestyle choice" and they consider my heterosexuality to be the same.

It doesn't make them any less gay or me any less straight because we refer to it as a "choice."

But I don't think it's appropriate to discuss the PRIVATE topic of sexual orientation, be it straight, gay, or anything in between, on a message board about Grease, Max's Boyfriend.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 03:59, 2007-08-25

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--



-- Edited by MaxFan at 04:17, 2007-08-26

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KoKo, I enjoyed reading your letter and I'm glad you sent it. You wrote it from your perspective and I wouldn't expect you to do more. You can't please everyone! I'm sorry some people took offense but it's clear to me you meant no harm.

If we disagree with people on here, do we have to be so biting with our words?

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Mrs. Zuko, Thanks so much.  I appreciate your kind words.  I loved your picture on your post....That's what its all about folks....lets all just try to be supportive of these these talented kids and this production that means something to all of us.  Instead of Grease is the word today....Peace is the word.....

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I was making a point with the grammar.  I could care less but max boyfriend was botching up koko's grammar.  I Realy thnk it is ok two mak somE mistaks onc in awhil.

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Michael Riedel's Review
Not to open a can of worms, but after reading his review I was struck by how insecure he must be to comment on someone's appearance in such a nasty and critical manner. Even worse, he must have the emotional level of a nine year old for commenting on or making fun of someone's name. I don't read reviews normally. Grease was an exception and this review reconfirmed why I don't.
A genius indeed!!!!!
How does anyone take him seriously----

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I am so over the reviews.....
After all, My Truth is the only one that matters, and I know that Max is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Hear, hear.

Mr. Riedel appears to write with an intent to anger.  If he did review this production of Grease, I didn't read it.

-- Edited by Kait at 19:18, 2007-08-25

-- Edited by Kait at 19:24, 2007-08-25

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dlz7 - that's John Simon's review you're talking about, not Michael Riedel.

Riedel doesn't review shows, he's a theatrical gossip columnist. And that is why, Kait, he writes with an intent to anger...don't most gossip columnists do the same? Some of his stories seem far-fetched, but he's correct 99% of the time.

There are as many great stories about Riedel as there are with Simon. The most famous - and most recent - was when English director David Leveaux knocked him out in a drunken brawl at the opening night of Fiddler on the Roof, which Riedel had declared "not Jewish enough." (Fact of the matter was that the revival actually wasn't Jewish enough, but that's neither here nor there.)

Riedel writes to make Riedel happy. Like John Simon, he loves to be the center of attention.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 19:29, 2007-08-25

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I have an idea. We should start posting pics of these "critics", and then we can decide if they themselves are goofy looking!

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Yes, yes they are. Very. Especially Ben Brantley.

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KoKo3,

I just want you to know that I found your response to Mr. Simon well crafted and I applaud your spunk!

(No undue disrespect to Max Boyfriend, but you cannot be expected to comment from any perspective than your own.)

You may have inspired me to send my own message.  My question is this:  Mr. Simon may not find Max sexually appealing but how can he totally dismiss the screaming throngs of teenage girls??

(I have been reading these posts for months and finally logged on because I just couldn't let it go.)

Max Star

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The simple fact is that he's not reviewing the audience.

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The men who comment on Max's looks are disregarding the fact that, often, women (and some men) aren't attracted to a man with (as David Ian would call it) conventional looks. Or maybe it's that our perception is swayed by personality. Guys I'm thinking of who have played that cool kind of high-school-age guy are John Cusack in Say Anything and Matthew Broderick in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I'd compare Max to them. Regardless, I'm sure this show will run a while, and I'm pretty certain that Max has a healthy entertainment career ahead of him.

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Yes you are right!  Definitely goofy looking.  Probably wakes up wishing he looked like Max Crumm!


Ben Brantley (credit: Brent Murray/NYTimes.com)

Ben Brantley

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Mr. E.,
I have only read one piece by Mr. Riedel in my life, and in that piece he seemed off base. (The one where he informed readers about the legions of people lining up for refunds after Max and Laura won the leads in this play.) The logic was skewed. If bunches of people decided they'd rushed to spend money before learning of the voting outcome, wouldn't bunches of others have decided that now they could safely buy their tickets?

Whatever. I suppose I just don't have the right personality to enjoy that sort of column. There's enough real horror in the world.

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I'm not defending or trashing him. Yes, his stories seem bizarre, far-fetched, made up, etc. In the long run, though, he's generally rarely wrong. He's got excellent sources, no matter how he gets 'em (he's usually seen chatting up and dining with actors, directors, producers, stagehands, etc. at the popular theater-eateries after shows).

Except when it comes to his Tony nomination predictions. Then he's totally off the mark.

That said, for someone who personally promised to trash the show, he's been surprisingly lax. Maybe the right people gave him some $$ to back off.

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MrE1111 wrote:

Yes, yes they are. Very. Especially Ben Brantley.





Interesting.....I wonder if gay Ben would be enthralled with Austin prancing around in a Danny wig and flashing his chorusgirl smile.
God, forgive me for that one.

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Brantley is a professional critic.  His personal feelings and preferences rarely, if ever, come into play in his reviews.

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I have no idea what you mean. What does he base his opinions on? Is there some scientific, left-brain set of criteria that I know nothing about? What good is the opinion of somebody whose feelings are shut off? Theater is about feelings, not scientific measurements.

-- Edited by Ray at 02:11, 2007-08-26

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Or maybe Reidel did not see it yet so cannot comment...or maybe he saw it and liked it and won't dare comment.

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Ray - I should have phrased it differently.  He doesn't use his penis to critique shows.

You're statement implies that because Brantley is gay, he'd look at the show differently if Austin was playing Danny and he had a crush on him.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 02:49, 2007-08-26

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Mr. E,

He is a professional critic since he is paid to express his opinion.  But still, his opinions are personal, how can they not be?

-- Edited by Max Star at 03:56, 2007-08-26

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This thread has digressed so badly and to subjects that are completely irrelivant. It should end now. Who cares anyway to listen to this nonsense and to reply on top of that.

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What I meant was that he doesn't judge an actor based on how he feels about them personally.  He judges them based on their performance.  Of course he has favorites, who doesn't?

You will never once see in his column a comment about whether or not they're physically attractive.

I'm gonna stick with Maxismylove and gracefully bow out.

This was an informative thread once.

-- Edited by MrE1111 at 04:24, 2007-08-26

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